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#10 Saturday May 31, 1997
Thank you very much for bringing this to our attention and I will share it with my colleagues.
Jennie Lee, Development Info. Manager
LEEJ @ GBSEDN03
Sedgwick Group plc
London, UK
Brefni's Response
Thank you for your attention and interest.
#9 Saturday May 31, 1997
While I can appreciate your frustration at what appears to be a difficult situation, it has been my experience after twenty years in the insurance industry that no Insurer deliberately sets out to screw its policyholders. It's just not good business. There is no doubt more to this dispute than what you care to admit. In that an insurance contract is a legal contract, there are legal remedies available in the event of an Insurer's failure to abide by the terms of that contract. If Commercial Union has failed to live up to its legal obligations, you should pursue redress through the appropriate channels. I would think that you are opening yourself up to a libel action by making unproven allegations against Commercial Union; and each additional "hit" on your web page may increase your exposure in this regard. Just for the record, neither I nor my firm have any dealings with CU. At any rate, please refrain from including us in any further e-mailings on this subject. Good luck in your efforts. Steve Lipscombe President CDC Insurance Services Ltd.
Steve Lipscombe
cdc@interlog.com
CDC Insurance Services Ltd.
na, na
Brefni's Response
Yes we do have a contract with our insurance company and yes we are persuing legal action against them. Action in the courts is extremely expensive and time consuming. In Canada civil cases can take years if not decades to move through the court system. We did not purchase insurance for the priviledge of hiring lawyers, adjusters, engineers and contractors to do battle with the standing army available to insurance companies. At the end of the day the result of our court action will be little more than an article of two in the media, of which most consumers will be unaware. I don't think consumers should have to trod the same path passed along by others. I don't beleive that consumers need a court of law to tell them if they are purchasing the insurance they want.I beleive that with access to the experience of others, consumers are capable of making their own informed choice. It would be helpfull if a data base of consumer experience indexed and linked to the relevant company were available to consumers. Certainly one family's experience does not tell the whole story. For the moment it's all I have to make available. Some experiences will also be available in local media libraries. As one person my resources are limited but I am not going quitely away and I hope that other consumers will volunteer their support in time. Experiences like ours should not be lost and I don't believe that we need the permission of anyone or any institution to tell our story. Certainly companies like Commercial Union are busy telling their story in many media, including the internet. Thank you for your contribution.
#8 Saturday May 31, 1997
Brefni: When I first received your notice about your site, I thought it might have some merit. Upon visiting your site I think you do yourself an injustice by devoting so much your site to your own particular claim problem and to one particular company. I suggest that you either use the frustration and anger that you apparently have with CU to establish a true Consumer's Insurance Forum or stop falsely advertising the purpose of your site. Why not change the URL of your site to something more generic like ww.insurance_consumers.org. Then tone down the amount of space devoted to your specific problem and give more room for others to post on both sides of an issue. I think if you take a more Professional approach to your idea, maybe, just maybe, the industry will begin to listen and maybe, just maybe, you will accomplish something good. As to your particular problem, what has been your agent's role in your claim? I am also surprised that you could get "Guaranteed" Replacement Cost on such an old dwelling. Also, did you seek out your own estimates from your own contractors before the work began? Good Luck and let me know if you change your site.
Bob Leusch
INSURANCE@prodigy.net
LEUSCH Ins. Ser. Agen., Inc.
Cleveland, OH, USA
Brefni's Response
You are right that at the moment much of the site is devoted to my family's particular claim. It hasn't been an easy thing to speak about in a detached manner but I have done my best and I don't know that the emotional impact of what we have experienced is irrelivant to a professional consideration of the issues I have raised. The site is meantto provide a forum for consumers, for whom insurance claims are not a professional experience. Beyond putting out the welcome mat I don't know how I can be more accomodating to the inclusion of other material and points of view. The material you see on the site is what I started with and what others have provided since the site went on line. The site is evolving and hopefully will continue to evolve. It is an individual effort and anyone or any organization is free to make their own effort iif they think they can do better. Your question about our agent has been answered in another posting. As to your question about our policy, it is what it is whether you are surprised or not and shoud be honoured. I believe that information on how insurance companies honour their policies should be widely and readily available. No one person's or family's experience in this regard is any less valuable than another's. They should all be preserved and regarded. There is nothing false in my efforts towards this goal. Thanks for your good wishes and input.
#7 Friday May 30, 1997
You have been covered in a UK trade paper Financial Adviser. It seems that CU are considering suing you. They will also seek to have the site taken down, they say. Enjoy.
Ian Dickson
ian@iand.demon.co.uk
Moneyweb - www.moneyweb.co.uk
na, UK
Brefni's Response
Thank you for the information. Unfortunately there is nothing enjoyable about our situation. The democratic opposition in Serbia used web sites and cell phones to good effect when the government there closed down their radio stations. It will be interesting to see the results if Commercial Union chooses to test Canadian rights to freedom of association and expression. I am reminded of the childrens' story "The Emperor's New Clothes". It took a child to ask why the emperor was parading in the streets with no clothes on before people had the courage to acknowledge what everyone could see. Perhaps this is only something that can be seen with the eyes of a disaster victim.
#6 Friday May 30, 1997
Thank you for your tip. Coincidentally, we were "pointed" to this site about 10 days ago. I personally read through the information and was saddened to learn of the way you've been treated. My question - where's your agent or broker in "all of this"? What are they doing to help?
Frank Krisanits
frk@drib.com
Diversified Risk Ins. Brokers
na
Brefni's Response
Our agent tried his best to represent us without success. Insurance companies hold vast amounts of money, in theory in trust to payout claims. If they choose not to honour their policies they have the resources and experience to fight long drawnout legal battles. With the exception of our own experience, I can only speculate that this unequal situation allowes unscrupulous companies to take advantage of disaster victims, who's resources are at their lowest. I can tell you that the cost of such a struggle is tremendous for the victims, not just financial but spiritual and emotional, from the youngest to the oldest. To even speak about this is to fill my eyes with tears but I have learned to fight and cry at the same time. In the past it has been unusual for situations like ours to become widely known. The weak are the least likely to put up a fight or even speak out. You can be sure that if companies were not making a profit from this way of doing business they would soon stop. My hope is that a site like this can make a difference. The responses I have been getting encourage that hope. Thank you for your concern and input.
#5 Wednesday May 28, 1997
What is Commercial Union's reaction to your web sight?
Jeffrey Burgener, Insurance Brokerage
jeff@transweswtern.com
Transwestern General Agency
Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Brefni's Response
Months of silence. We contacted Gerry Stafford, Pres.CU Canada nearly a year ago. CU world wide have been kept informed for months now. Before the internet very few people would ever know what goes on. Extreme situations like ours will no longer be a one day wonder known to a few after years of litigation. Unscrupulous companies in the insurance industry have in the past thrived in obscurity by preying on the vulnerable. Now consumers will have the opportunity to distinguish reputable businesses from disreputable ones and reward right and ethical practice. The information will be available world wide, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Thank you for your contribution.
#4 Wednesday May 28, 1997
I am an insurance broker for many insurers, and my experience is that on losses less than $50k most claims are paid with a majority of clients being happy. The problem with many insurers losses in excess of $100k, insurers are attempting to save themselves10-15% of the loss trying not to pay and putting clients through the ropes to pay less. Unfortunately you had a major loss and the insurer is trying to save $$$ any way they can, which by the sounds of it includes a shoddy contractor, which has done in the past it appears like a lot of work for CU. You were in no way married to CU's list of contractors and its like hiring any contractor you should have references, etc... This is probably some sleaseball contractor whom has undercut other reputable contractors by entering into a contract with CU for a flat rate i.e $35/hr. to do their restoration work for them. A proper bidding of work should have been obtained by three reputable firms to complete the work. You will not likely get much dissatified claims responses as 99% of losses are less than $50k and are probably handled to customer satisfaction, but if you were able to obtain a list of all insureds whom had a large claim with any insurer, you would likely experience the same agravation with their insurer. Good Luck, dont't give up the fight
Ken Armstrong
armyken@globalserve.on.ca
HJM Insurance Brokers
na, Canada
Brefni's Response
In the mean, lean 90's some insurers have started to redeuce payouts on smaller claims, reduce payouts over all by up to 60 to 70% and have a number of "shoddy" contractors bid to justify their settlement offer on larger claims. A vulnerable family recovering from a disaster is a much easier source of profit than competing against other companies for business or maximizing returns in the financial markets. If consumers can network with each other this could change. Sites like this one are I believe a small step in that direction. Thanks for the response.
#3 Wednesday May 28, 1997
I regret to hear of your terrible claims. I have a small portion of our business with C. U. and they have been very good on claims. It would seem apparent the contractors were incapable of such a fire restoration and both your family and Commercial Union are paying the price for this. Were the correct kind & limits of coverage carried. You have an extreme situation and I wish you luck in getting some satisfaction. Keith Bossaer, CAIB
Keith Bossaer, Insurance Broker
lewchuk@w2d.com
Lewchuk & Associates Ins. Inc.
North Battleford, Saskatchewan, Canada
Brefni's Response
This has been a horrendous experience for us. Thank you for your good wishes. Hopefully sites like this will help people avoid companies that profit by preying on the vulnerable victims of disasters.
#2 Tuesday May 27, 1997
Why do search engines such as Yahoo bury consumer sites such as Commercial Union Consumers' Forum so deeply down in their category tree, ie:
http://www.yahoo.com/Regional/Countries/Canada/Provinces_and_Territories/Ontario /Counties_and_Regions/Greater_Toronto_Area__GTA_/Metropolitan_Toronto/
Toronto/Business/Financial_Services/Insurance/
and at the same time favour large multi national corporations such as Commercial Union with listings much higher in their category tree? ie:
http://www.yahoo.com/Business_and_Economy/Companies/Financial_Services/Insuranc/
M.Tanaka
23796m@qa2.so-net.or.jp
Yokahama, Japan
Brefni's Response
I don't know how many people realize that web sites have little or no relation to time and space. One site on the internet is right next to another. Many people still think in terms of physical presence. CUCF only exists on the internet. A consumer network like this would be almost impossible with out the internet. Sites like CUCF will thrive if they help consumers to help each other and recognize businesses that act rightly and ethically.
#1 Tuesday April 29, 1997
I guess you do not want to hear my experience with CU, but I have nothing but praise for the way the company handled my loss. The adjuster was timely, repairs were to the highest order and to my satisfaction completely. I have had other insurance companies, but CU has by far been the best claim service I ever enjoyed. Maybe the Canadian operation is different, and the US operation is better. I wish you well in settling your matter with the company.
D.Johnson
adjohns@nr.infi.net
n.a., USA
Brefni's Response
I do very much want to hear of other peoples' experiences and if you could provide me with more information I would be happy to post your claim experience on the CUCF web site. Any organization is only as good as the individuals that represent it. The business practices of a company will vary from one location to another for this reason. Sharing our consumer experiences with each other will help everyone to recognize and reward good business practices and companies over bad, as well as the good aspects of a particular company.
Help others to make an informed decision
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